Abbas: How was your show in Greece?
Hellhammer: Well, actually our plan was to go on Friday and play on Saturday and return on Sunday. But, of course, the plane was delayed. We had to stay one night in Amsterdam because of the mist and the fog [forgot to ask if it was funeral fog or moonfog!!], and actually reached Greece...Athens, about 10 o'clock at night, the very same as we were going to play. So it was a total drag. Everything was done in a rush. It was a small club, with maybe 400 people could fit in there, and it was actually 5 or 600 of them inside, so it was a total crowd. After the show...by the way, we had to go through the audience to reach the stage. I hate that kind of thing because there was no backstage there...but we're talking about Greece, so...well, anyway, after the last song, the guys disappeared. Of course, I was behind the drum kit, which was set into a corner, so I had to move some cymbals to get past there, and of course, the fans rush...immediately was on the stage. So I had some drum sticks and more...it was a total mess there. There was the drum kit, which by the way wasn't mine, it was rented, and somehow I got out of there, but they took all my sticks and even tried to take the cymbals of the kit...total mess there.

How many songs did you guys play?
Hellhammer: 12 or 13...

Did you play any songs off the new album?
Hellhammer: Yes. That was the reason we went down there to play, just to see how one new song was to play live.

So you met the guys from Altars of Metal 'zine? They gave you a copy, I believe...
Hellhammer: Um...I don't remember actually.

This friend of mine was taking some pictures, he showed me some pictures he took from the show and said, "yeah we gave them a copy of the show afterwards." He told me to ask you who Vangelis is...
Hellhammer: About 10 years ago or something, when I joined Mayhem, there was some Greek guys coming over to Norway to write about Mayhem. They stayed in our apartment for a while, and it was kind of a big while...stayed there for months. Well, I haven't seen...he went off to Greece after some time, but I haven't seen or heard anything from him.

He didn't go to the show or anything?
Hellhammer: No, according to the one who arranged the gig, he said that he was lurking.

What is this bullshit about...I heard your instruments were stolen at the airport??
Hellhammer: That's true. My stuff was missing when we arrived in Amsterdam. But luckily, when we arrived in Athens, my snare drum and my pedals and my whole shit was found. But then again, Blasphemer's guitar was missing, so he had to loan a guitar from the opening band.

Yeah, I saw a picture, he was using a Warlock...
Hellhammer: Yeah, a red one...no, a black one. But it was like a cheap edition.

Yeah. So you didn't get the guitar back at all?
Hellhammer: He did get it back on Sunday at the airport.

Oh, I was going to say...man that sucks.
Hellhammer: Well, it sucked anyway, but for us this was just kind of a spur of the moment...we just go down there and check out the new song. Also, we had the song to play for fans in Greece. And the fans were...something different.

Oh really, a good audience?
Hellhammer: Very good. But the security had to be much stronger. It was actually our fault, because Necrobutcher was totally drunk as usual, and he said to the security, "we don't need this security, get the fuck out..." and they went, of course. It was okay for him, you know, but for me, sitting up there as the last person...

Did you just take the one snare, the same, the piccolo one you brought to Milwaukee?
Hellhammer: Yes.

But you prefer playing your kit all the time?
Hellhammer: Yeah. Well, I can play on different drums, of course, but I prefer to play on my Pearl drum kit.

Oh, you have a Pearl kit?
Hellhammer: Yeah.

What kind?
Hellhammer: I have a C Set X Custom. It's quite old, but I think it's the most solid drums ever made, actually. It's twice thick shells, and kind of square sized toms, very deep toms. Bass drums, too...and, sounds amazing.

Yeah, that's...a big section of my thing is about your drum sound. I talked with, I believe it was Equimanthorn from Dark Funeral. He came online, long...this is long time ago. And I mean, some people, obviously they can make up and say, "yeah I'm this guy, this guy"...but this guy wasn't being pretentious, but I was just talking to him and he said, "Yeah, I play Pearl Export." And also I noticed Immortal uses Pearl Export, I believe...and, it just seems like Pearl Export tends to be a pretty popular kit around there.
Hellhammer: Yeah, you know Pearl is the world's largest drum manufacturer. Export kits are the birch beginner's kits. It's very popular, it's very good kits but when you're used to some of their high end kits, like (M?) Custom or the C set X Custom, which I have, or the GLX Super Pro which I had before, going back to Export kits, it's a little drawback. But, by all means, they're very good kits, they're cheap and sounds good...and their hardware is very good.

Yeah, hardware I have to say...I used to buy Tama hardware and I just hate the stuff. The Pearl is so much better, I fucking hate Tama hardware. I have one little ring in one of my stands and it was broken. I've been trying to order it for over a year and it's a total bitch. I've been trying to look at different sets myself, and I came to a point where I'm like, "Look, how much difference does it make?" You buy a high Yamaha, you buy your Sonor, your DW, whatever, but it depends more on your tuning and how you play. I figure if you get a nice, solid kit you're comfortable with...you get a brand, take it, and tune it to your liking, and I think from that point on you can build onto it. So, you're the first person I've spoken with that actually uses real high end Pearl. Everybody else I've seen has Yamaha or Sonor or Tama or something, so...that's really cool, I've never known what to make of Pearl.
Hellhammer: Well, you know, I also believe...well, I always had Pearl kits. This is my 4th Pearl kit. I started out with a Premiere, a very, very old kit, but Pearl was the stuff I wanted then. Now, I'm very confident with their hardware. If something's not right, I can fix it like 'this', because I know their hardware and I know how it's done. It's a little drag, because when you play outside shows, it's almost only Yamaha kits. Yamaha Recording 9000 or this new stuff they have. At the beginning I didn't like it because it was awkward for me, hardware wise, but, yeah I really prefer to have Pearl kits all the time.

So your snare is a Pearl too, right?
Hellhammer: That's a Pearl. Well, I have lots of different snares, but this piccolo, maple drum is what I always bring with me.

Well this is one of my sections, "Let's talk about your drum sound." Let's go back to, say, De Misteriis and Constellation and those recordings. Now, that snare is my favorite snare ever. It's such a deep, pounding, it's just the most full snare. Every time you hit it, you feel it in your heart, you feel it in your chest and you can totally tell it's such a good, thick snare. And I remember we talked about that...
Hellhammer: The one that I used on Misteriis... was an 8" Pearl stainless steel snare. It was tuned...well, it wasn't that high, but it wasn't that low, either. The snare I used on Constellation was also a Pearl 8" snare, but it was a brass free-floating snare. That was tuned pretty high, cranked up...indeed, it was very good (drums), but now I prefer the piccolo stuff for, you know...Mayhem's new stuff is kind of hyper-fast. When I play slower stuff, it's cool to have a snare drum with some body and some depth, but playing this extremely fast stuff, you need a piccolo to really cut through.

Have you heard Vital Remains?
Hellhammer: Ahh...yes...

The Forever Underground album on Osmose?
Hellhammer: I just think I've heard some songs from a compilation or something.

They have a really, very good drum sound. Especially his snare, it's that piccolo snare. You should check it out, for grind stuff and the blasts he does are really fast, and it sounds...it's awesome. It's got a real high...it hits you every time. I noticed that, for a piccolo, cause you got a much better bounce back, right, when you hit the snare?
Hellhammer: When you have a piccolo?

Yeah, when you hit it, it bounces back right away?
Hellhammer: Actually, I think that the deeper drum bounces back better. It depends on what you're used to. When I started using piccolo, it was kind of awkward, because it felt like hitting the stick on something concrete, something hard, very hard, which didn't bounce back. Because, for example, a 8" drum, you have this air between the drum heads which gives you nice bounce back. But, I got used to it and if I could choose, I would prefer the sound of a piccolo but the feel of a deeper snare.

I see. When you do your blasts, do you have a weird twitch to it? Like...almost twitch your hand two times for every one, you know what I mean? Have you...who are some of your more favorite drummers, would you say? Like maybe even metal drummer and anybody else?
Hellhammer: Speaking of technique, or...?

Yeah, exactly...I'm sure you've been compared to Pete Sandoval a lot, as far as speed goes...I mean, Terrorizer and early Morbid Angel and all them. He set so many standards, and...so I would go watch him play, and he has a weird twitch the way he does it. I just saw Morbid Angel in December, they're one of my most favorite bands ever. I'd watch him play and he has this twitch, cause he uses one foot when he does his blasts, he doesn't use two feet. So he has this twitch when he plays and it's just astounding to watch it, cause it's almost like he's going half time, but he does it twice, and it's just so fast, it's incredible.
Hellhammer: Yeah, it's like...it's actually the same as I do, but he holds the stick kind of different. He use something the drummer language call a kind of a "German grip", which is like palm of your hand down on the drum. But he also hold his forefinger up on the upper side of his drumstick sometimes, and I asked him the reason for doing that, and he said, "well, I can control the stick with my forefinger, too, and the stick doesn't fly too high up in the air." I can play like that. I play something called a "French grip", which is like the thumbs are on top of the drumstick, and your thumbs are almost in the air. So you turn your hand over. And the so-called fulcrum is between the forefinger and the thumb. And I do also this kind of...well, I hit for blast beats and fast ride cymbal stuff, when I hit the snare drum, for example, my wrists...my arm doesn't move that much, but my wrist is going up while the stick is going down, and when my stick bounces off the head, going up, my wrist is going down. So it's kind of a...

It's like a wave, kind of a waving motion almost...?
Hellhammer: Yeah, a waving motion. Instead of when you play with your hands...it's like palms downs, but I have palm of the hand on the side. Know what I mean?

Right, right. I noticed when I was watching you play also, that, you know, you have some drummers that, they're concentrating so much in everything they're doing, it's very very...they're looking exactly at everything they're doing, and very concentrating. I think with you, you're just don't your blast and you're looking off to the side and doing so many things, it's just funny. My friend said, "just watch him. He's doing...how fast he's blasting, but he's not even shaking or fretting, he's just kinda looking at the side and blasting, testing it out."
Hellhammer: Yeah, well actually on this Milwaukee gig, my left bass drum was creeping forward.

Not good.
Hellhammer: It was a total drag to play, and I was thinking, "hmm, how do I solve this?" and my playing kind of thought...went autopilot.

[laughs]
Hellhammer: No, I didn't feel very comfortable at that gig at all. I didn't have all my cymbals and all that kind of stuff. Yeah, when I play, and when I play fast, I try to...or, I am relaxed, and if you tighten up when you play fast, you get cramp and you're not going to be able to play fast for such a long time. But that's also which one of my first teacher told me, always sit relaxed. And, yeah...just stay calm with your upper body and just let your wrists and arms fly. And legs, of course.

Do you remember what snare you were using on the Live In Leipzig recording?
Hellhammer: Oh, that's...[laughs] That's so old but I remember. It was one of the opening band's drum kit. I didn't have anything but my bass drum pedals and my sticks with me. It was kind of old German make called Trixton (?) I guess and it was a total mess, that drum kit. The most shattered drum kit I've ever seen in my whole life. But we're talking about former East Germany now, just after the war breaks down...so they didn't have any good equipment, and at that time it didn't play very well, either, so it makes sense. But, this drum kit was unbelievable. The only time I had to play on something worse like that was on the very same tour, but it was in Turkey. That...it was unplayable, that drum kit.

I notice the snare has a bit of a loose sound. I mean, I love that recording, that's probably the only live album I listen to over and over. It's just so much fun to listen to, plus it's just nice, one of the only recordings of Dead you have, which is one thing, but even like the song Deathcrush, I just really like...your drums on it make it so catchy. I love Deathcrush EP, because it's so raw, the first one, but then I listen to the Live In Leipzig and you can already tell, okay, that's Hellhammer's style. There's something about the way you did the beat, I don't know, it was just very catchy...
Hellhammer: Well, thank you. This album, back then, I went on the stage, I was drunk, I didn't care that much about...Nowadays, I never drink before shows, not one beer. But, yeah, I guess that people can hear that it is my style, it's me playing, playing there, even though I didn't play [laughs] very well, you can tell...

No, I love it. I just like the whole album, it's such a good feel to it.
Hellhammer: Wow, thank you.

What kind of pedals do you use?
Hellhammer: Well, back then I used something called Drum Workshop 5000.

Oh, DW, yeah. Those are nice. Those are like standards...
Hellhammer: Actually, they're just a bunch of crap. The hinge between the pedal plate and the heel plate tightens up. They break down easily, so now I use Axis pedals.

[laughs] Um, see...I bought Axis, too. I love them because they're so fast, but I keep having...
Hellhammer: Yeah, don't have them...maintenance free. Best pedals ever, I can't imagine playing without them anymore.

Yeah, I got so used to them, I was going so fast. But, see I don't have two bass drums, I have one big one, and then I have the double-pedal, which, obviously it's much different than double bass. But, I just kept having fucking problems with it, and I sent it [in for repair]. They had the fucking thing for two months and all they had to do was one replace one little thing. And then, these stupid little problems here and there, I was just getting so pissed off. There's a brand new Premiere pedal, I don't know if you've seen it, it's really thin...
Hellhammer: Thin pedal, yes...

Yeah, it's real thin. It's very, very fast, too.
Hellhammer: Yeah, I tested it, but there are some problems to that pedal, because, well first, the beater itself...

The felt one?
Hellhammer: The felt and the other plastic, the dual beater, you know?

Yeah.
Hellhammer: It breaks down very easily. And this rubber thing which they use instead of a spring, it breaks after some use. They're very nice pedals, very light and very quick, and very cheap too, but compared to, for example, Axis, I really prefer Axis.

You use wood beaters, too?
Hellhammer: Sometimes, but I usually stick w/this which came with the pedal, this hard, plastic ones.

Oh, that's the Axis ones?
Hellhammer: Yeah.

I forgot, I thought those were wood.
Hellhammer: No, they're made of this stuff called "Delrin", which is a very hard, very hard plastic.

See...going back to the snare thing, I thought the old snares you were using on, especially De Misteriis... and Constellation were wood, because they're very warm sounding, too. So I thought they were a complete wood shell...
Hellhammer: Well, back then I would prefer wood shell, but I didn't have the money to buy one [laughs]. Back in Misteriis days, it was stainless steel. But I tried to tune it so it would sound warm and kind of woody...

It's fantastic. Do you think also the way you mic'd it had something to do [with it]? Because you have the ring, but you don't have that high, screaming ring, you have just the real low, pounding, and it seems like there's a lot of reverb on it.
Hellhammer: On the snare or on the whole kit?

On the whole kit, too, but especially on the snare, like Freezing Moon, when you pound it right in the beginning, that's the fucking best.
Hellhammer: I remember when we mic'd it, it was like...well, this studio is called the Grieg Memorial Hall, you know? They used to have big classical concerts there, and I said to the engineer...I didn't want my drums recorded in the actual studio, I wanted the drums down at this very hall. So we mic'd up the kit the usual way, but we also had some ambience mixed around the drums...

Have you heard, I believe My Dying Bride, they go to various churches and record the drums there...
Hellhammer: Yeah, I heard about that.

Intuitive what stuff goes [on]. I was surprised they let them do it, but I thought that was a very cool idea.
Hellhammer: Sitting there and playing, it was very good. So much different from this padded, usual surroundings.

Yeah, cause then you gotta use effects to get all the sounds you want. Real quick, in the beginning of Freezing Moon, when you do that, are you using the whole stick when you hit the snare, instead of just the tip? You hit the stick flat against the snare...?
Hellhammer: No, I never use rim shots. I don't know, I should maybe use that sometimes, but, no, just the tip against the head.

Are they really thick sticks, too?
Hellhammer: Oh yeah. It was, let me think...

Like 2B's or something?
Hellhammer: Oh, much thicker it was. It was marching...hickory marching stick.

Did you play with that for the whole song?
Hellhammer: Yeah. I played with the most heavy sticks I could find. Like, with (regal) tip, you know?

You played the whole album with real heavy sticks?
Hellhammer: Yeah. I always played with heavy sticks back then.

And you were still going that fast?
Hellhammer: Yeah. Now I use relatively lighter sticks. I use something called a 3A.

I've never seen those.
Hellhammer: For me that's the best because the actual stick is not so thick, so I can control it better, but it's much thicker out to the tip, so it doesn't break easily. And, of course, it's harder to get the bounce than, for example, a 5B or 5A, which is much thinner towards the tip, but...no, I just like that front heavy feeling of those sticks. 3A, vinyl tip, that's the thing for me.

Why do you use triggers now on the new stuff?
Hellhammer: Because, well, first, it's much easier to get a good sound, exactly what sound you're going to get. Well, almost, then.

I figured...on De Misteriis, is that a trigger?
Hellhammer: No.

I didn't think so. At first I didn't think so, then I thought it was, then I'm like no...there's too much, I mean you can feel there's a punch in it, and there's also...I like that sound a lot. But then on the new one, well you can tell, like Symbols of Bloodswords and things, when you're doing, like towards the end, the trigger is perfect cause it's so thick and you feel every single beat. Normally I hate triggers. That trigger I think is very good because it's got a very good body and punch and feel to it. It's much better than pretty much every other trigger I've heard.
Hellhammer: Yeah, well the toms are acoustic but the snare...the bass drums are totally triggered. The snare is a combination between triggers and acoustic. Which, by the way, the snare on that album was a very, very old Ludwig brass shell snare drum, 5".

On Wolf's Lair Abyss?
Hellhammer: Yeah.

On the first two songs or the second two songs?
Hellhammer: I used the same, actually. On the second two songs it was no triggering, it was just the actual acoustic. On the last songs I only triggered bass drums and ride cymbal.

You're good friends with Mr. Nagel, right?
Hellhammer: Yeah.

So did you guys ever go back and forth as far as drum sounds and techniques and things like that?
Hellhammer: With him?

Yeah.
Hellhammer: No, he doesn't play drums anymore.

Fenriz doesn't?
Hellhammer: No.

I thought there was a new Darkthrone coming out, in the summer or something I heard...
Hellhammer: Well, maybe. He is playing drums, but he's not hooked on drums the way that I am. He's drunk all day so he just play the things. He was very into drums around when the Goatlord was recorded, and the very first album, Soulside Journey.

I've been listening to the older, like, A Blaze... and I think the sound on that's great. He's got a real good snare, the kick and everything is real punchy, without triggers.
Hellhammer: Yeah the snare is very good. It's a Pearl piccolo free-floating brass shell.

All musical equipment is much more expensive there, right?
Hellhammer: Yeah, oh yeah.

I was gonna say...I heard the guy from Meshuggah spent like $15,000 on his drum set or something insane, which I think is amazing, but...
Hellhammer: Well, mine is actually more expensive...

[laughs] Oh my god. Really?
Hellhammer: All the cymbals and stuff...it's very, very expensive here. I told Pete (Sandoval) what my drums cost and he, "No, I don't believe it." [laughs]

[laughs] He's endorsed, isn't he?
Hellhammer: Yeah, he's endorsed by Mapex. But he preferred the Yamaha...[laughs]

I figured that. I like the stuff he recorded with the Yamaha much better than the Mapex. Especially...well, live it's kind of if and if. Did you ever consider talking to a drum company and have them make the "Hellhammer snare"?
Hellhammer: [laughs] That would be excellent, but I think that's in the long future for me [laughs].

You never know. A lot of kids, if they a good black metal sound, they [can] just go buy a "Hellhammer snare".
Hellhammer: Actually, I am endorsed by a stick company now. Vater sticks. It's from the states, actually, very good sticks. I also want to be endorsed by Pearl, but of course, I won't get their interest. [laughs]

Oh man, if Pearl had any brains, they'd be all over that. I'm gonna go back over to De Misteriis. That's one of the most important albums in my collection. It's my favorite black metal album. I put right up next to Reign In Blood and Altars of Madness and Master of Puppets, it's right there in my collection. Especially, the drum sound is one of the most influential things as far as black metal goes. I think it's such a new contribution to metal. If you were to send your cd's to Pearl and say, "Listen, this is what I've played on,", if any guy there had a brain, they'd be like, "okay, this guy knows his drum sounds" for one thing.
Hellhammer: Yeah, but maybe they are kind of...they don't like the satanic image.

Yeah, well you know what's funny, if you see some magazines, you'll see Attack drum heads have their ads, and they have pictures of everybody, and then they have Pete Sandoval. It's so funny, cause he looks so different from everyone...
Hellhammer: I've seen that, (in woman's commecials..?)

I just think he looks hilarious cause he's sitting there with his leather jacket and things, and it just completely looks so funny. I'm like, "this is good."
Hellhammer: It's true [laughs].

I know. He always looks like a "death metaller". It's just funny.
Hellhammer: Yeah, he does. I guess that he is endorsed by Sabian cymbals, Mapex drums and Pro Mark sticks, isn't it?

I'm sure the label has something to do with it, too.
Hellhammer: His drum tech said that he's sponsored by D-Drums, too.

DW?
Hellhammer: No, D-Drums, you know, the triggering company?

Oh, yeah, yeah, sorry. Okay, basically, I told you how important this album [De Misteriis...] is. My question is, when you were recording it, what sorts of goals did you have in your mind? Because, you set the standard so high with it, you know the magnitude of the album, the influence its had. Do you think, at the time, do you feel it was a stepping stone for something that was going to be greater, or do you think, "What we did with that, we had the atmosphere. We've done what we've done and now we're gonna do something else because we're not gonna try and build on that, because that's...it's the best it is, and we're gonna do something different..." Do you know what I mean? Did you expect it to have that kind of impact?
Hellhammer: When we recorded it? No...but drum-wise, I tried to be original. When playing blasts, for example, most drummers at that time were playing straight 16th notes on the, say, ride cymbal, and I tried to kind of mix it up and renew some notes and make it sound interesting. And also the high-hat, on the actual De Misteriis... song...

I was just going to say, the very beginning of it, after he does the first scream, you're playing with the high hat. I've heard Enslaved and other bands start doing that, too.
Hellhammer: Yeah, lots of other bands. And I also used this kind of X hat, which is a closed high hat on the right side of the kit.

I'm sorry, what is this?
Hellhammer: It's a high hat. It's not the conventional high hat. The cymbals are the same, but the stand is like...

Oh, it's the tube one?
Hellhammer: It's called an "Aux" hat or something. Auxilliary hat. I used that between the ride cymbal and that hat, and people didn't believe I was playing, because how can you shift back and forth so fast? Well, it's no problem because I have a high hat on the right side as well.

One of my favorite drummers is Charlie Benante from Anthrax. And you can tell on his recordings he's got two different ones, he plays with one here and one here. I wanted to do that, I said I would like to get a high hat on the right side. Especially when you're blasting, it's kind of easier to blast with the ride...
Hellhammer: It absolutely is. It's kind of hard to play very, very fast when you have to crossover your arms. So when I play, it always was and is easier for me to play the "Slayer beat", you know, faster on the ride cymbal than on the high hat.

Yeah! I'm glad you mentioned that, I just call that the "thrash beat", the real fast, aggressive Slayer...you know, you have high hat or ride with the kick and the snare...
Hellhammer: Yes. I call it "Slayer beat" [laughs]

With our band, that's pretty much what we've stressed, we make our drummer do most like that. It tires the shit out of him, but it's much more aggressive, I think. A lot of bands today don't do that very much, they just go the 1-2 1-2 just to play fast.
Hellhammer: Yeah, the cheat stuff..?

Right. Well, for some stuff it works, if you're standard black metal. On Ancient Skin, on the mini-cd, you're going through and you're playing the Slayer beat through the first through, and then you do the roll, you go to the ride, you go back to the high hat, go back to the ride...when you're back to the high hat, towards the very end of it, you know how you stop doing the Slayer and you just do the 1-2?
Hellhammer: Yeah, I know...[laughs]

I think it's cool, I was just wondering. I didn't pick it up til later, but I figured...I was gonna ask why you did that, it kinda makes it sound more primitive.
Hellhammer: No, it was just me screwing up. I couldn't hold it anymore.

I don't blame you at all. I'm so surprised you're still able to play that fucking fast on the ride when you're switching over like that, I think it's amazing. I really like how it sounds.
Hellhammer: Well, the ride cymbal on Ancient Skin is triggered. So I didn't use the ride cymbal on that, I used a pad.

You get a better bounce off the pad, too, right?
Hellhammer: Yeah, that's true. Now I can play just as fast as the ride cymbal as I did on that take. These rubber pads are...you get a much better rebound, so you can actually play faster than on a metal cymbal. That's the reason for using that, but I could actually played it faster if I wanted to, but Blasphemer said, "No it should go exactly like this tempo." I was concentrating on the tempo at the end, I couldn't play the Slayer beat anymore so I had to use this shit-beat [laughs]. It was a very cheap studio, anyway, and we didn't have all the time in the world, so we just took that. It was the first take, I guess.

I heard the Misanthropy compilation, you have the promo track of Ancient Skin from the '96 CD from the Marduk gig?
Hellhammer: Yeah, that's true, yah.

That fucking track is INCREDIBLE. It's just more raw, more gruesome, it's faster. I like the vocals on it much more, too. I mean, I love the mini-cd one, but then I heard that and I'm just like, "Oh...man..." The drums on that are just...incredible! When you're rotating back between high-hat, just before you switch to the very fast riff, and you start blasting...which is just insanely fast. My friend's like, "It sounds like a fucking machine."
Hellhammer: [laughs]

When you switch your playing with the high hat and ride both, I'm just like, "Shit, why can't I do this??" I'm also more satisfied with that track. That track from [that] stuff was recorded in the same studio at the same time when we recorded the first two tracks on Wolf's Lair. Blasphemer wasn't happy with the tempo because he thought it was going too fast, and Symbols of Bloodswords wasn't written yet, so we recorded the two first songs, I went to Germany to record with Covenant, and the very same day I came back, went into this cheap studio to redo Ancient Skin and finally Symbols of Bloodswords.
Hellhammer: On the mini-cd, it sounds a little bit more structured and "epic" sounding, whereas on the Ancient Skin [promo] you just kinda went in there and fucking blasted it. I just love that, cause it seems like there is more aggression, like, "Let's just go fucking do this and go."

[Hellhammer had to depart for a bit and we resumed the interview later that day]

I'm going to start again with when you recorded De Misteriis. I was asking about what your goals were. You added in your own style of drumming, and kind of introduced this to the world, "Ok, this is Hellhammer," with your drum sound and everything. I'd say, with that album, it's a much more atmospheric album, and I think the newer stuff is much more outright brutal. It's got its atmospheric parts, but it's just more angry and brutal. I think on that album [De Misteriis], it seemed like the guitars were written and then you just put drums to it, like standard "Here's all my riffs, put some drum beats to it." It's got a real hypnotic feel to it. You do a lot of same drums and it's just very hypnotic. On the new stuff, it seems like you come up with a bunch of drum beats and then say, "Okay, now put some guitars to it." Like, right when Symbols of Bloodswords starts, it's like that drum roll thing, you do that roll and he has the two chords? It's kinda like you did the roll and said, "Okay, put some [guitars] to it."
Hellhammer: [laughs]

Or, you know, Ancient Skin, it's like, you repeat some riffs but you change your drums around so much, it's so cool. It's like, the drums are so much more crucial. You're listening to it and there's a lot more going on. You really shined a lot more. So it's like, De Misteriis came out, and it's incredible drumming, but it seems basic compared to the stuff you're doing now...
Hellhammer: Oh yeah, it is. The drums are much more dominant now than before. I think it has to be that way, because this music which we are doing now, it's much more about beats and drumming, actually. Before, at De Misteriis, I think it was a different lineup and we all were different then. We were much, much more into the occult, satanism and stuff like that, at that time, and the album also came out very dark...

Definitely. It's one of the most haunting albums out there.
Hellhammer: That was a kind of reflection on how we felt that time.

Yeah. That was my first question actually that I came up with. Music to me, it's about your personality and your feelings.
Hellhammer: Yes.

If you don't feel it, there's no point in doing it.
Hellhammer: That's true.

So that's why I wanted to ask. When you just sit there and get ready to play, what happens in your head? What feelings do you get? It's kinda like, every time you're hitting the snare drum it's like your hitting someone's head, like you're pounding people's heads in, or...
Hellhammer: [laughs]

What sorts of feelings happen to you? Cause I listen to these songs and I start shaking as it is, and I want to wonder. You're sitting there actually creating this music.
Hellhammer: Well, at Misteriis, the surroundings in this Grieg Memorial Hall, it was totally dark...and, there was lighting from candlelight. We also did the same when Atilla put the vocals on it, and it created a very gloomy atmosphere. I don't know...today, it feels, I feel a little bit strange about it, because...back then, there was much more, you know, darkness in our souls.

I see. On the newer stuff, it's more like...
Hellhammer: More brutal, war style...

Yeah, more insane, kind of.
Hellhammer: Yeah. And the new stuff is going to be total war metal. Extremely fast, with Maniac using a megaphone and simulating this sound from the war. The new album is going to be a total killer. It's going to be so brutal, and...yeah, like that's when you heard before, I can promise you that.

The album is called The Grand Declaration of War?
Hellhammer: Yeah.

Who came up with that title?
Hellhammer: Ah...Maniac.

I remember at metalfest he told me it's 8 brand new songs?
Hellhammer: That's right.

Is it kind of like, war on "everything" or war on anything specific he meant?
Hellhammer: About this title?

Yeah, like is it specific war against say, christianity, or is it war against everything or...?
Hellhammer: [laughs] I'm not quite sure. I guess it's war against everything. Everything he doesn't like. He writes all the lyrics and we don't interfere with his lyrical part. It's hard to understand his lyrics. I guess people have to read them and make up their own minds about what he's talking about.

I think I recall this from before, you mentioned [long ago in another interview] where the focus wasn't satanism or anything so much, it's just more darkness. I think a lot of bands, automatically they're "satanic", it's just like "Well, okay." The darkness isn't there. There's so few...before, there was, you could tell when a lot of the black metal was starting, it was dark music. And now, it hasn't been...I've not felt anything that's come out that's very dark at all...
Hellhammer: Me neither. I don't know, but suddenly black metal started to be kind of "happy" dark metal, with female vocals and lots of keyboards. Beautiful harmonies, almost like a pop tune. [laughs] I don't feel that they have the right to call themselves black metal, but they do that because black metal is a trend now, and they did sell more albums. I don't know, maybe they believe it's black metal, but for me, it's not.

I know the labels have gotten, as far as making everything so distinct now, everybody's got a different name for whatever type of metal they are. It's kinda silly. Are you familiar with the French Black Legions bands?
Hellhammer: Black...

Black Legions, like Vlad Tepes and Mutiilation and Belketre...?
Hellhammer: Ah, no...

It's very raw, primitive type of stuff. They came out a long time ago. It was a Vlad Tepes/Belketre split, and I think the guys in Belketre commit suicide or something shortly before it came out, or after. It's really good stuff, as far as black metal goes. It's just very raw, primitive, but it's not like shitty, like, "We just plug in and nothing." You can tell they have their sound, but it's very grim and dark stuff. They had this whole thing going out about how stuff has gotten so out of fucking whack and there's so much stupid shit, so fuck you people. It was kind of goofy, cause they released one split CD and they said, "This is the only CD we're gonna put out." It came out on Embassy productions. And they said, the rest of it will be...they had their Black Legions studio and they would go, "We tape trade our demos between our Black Legions people for the Black Legions only, everyone else can fuck off." I was like, okay, well this is respectable, they're doing this, they're just like, "We're putting our CD out to show you what the hell we're doing, and then you can fuck off." And then later on, another CD came out with another split band. I said what the hell is this? You put one CD out, now you're putting another...I don't know, their demo is War Funeral March which Fullmoon pressed up. It's an excellent demo, and the Mutiilation CD I have, I didn't even get this album til like '97 or '98, but it came out in '94 or '95, or at least it was recorded, and they said, "Black metal has become total bullshit, fuck you" and it's just very raw, grim, cold stuff. I was kinda curious to see if...one day maybe I'll ask Fenriz if he knows about it, because he was the original one to say he wanted stuff to sound grim, and everybody said to him, "Hey, what the hell's wrong with you, why don't you make a nice, better production?" And he's like, "No, fuck you." And now everybody's doing it.
Hellhammer: Yeah, that's true.

Oh well, that's one thing. As far as the guitar sound goes, did you guys use Euronymous' old equpiment, or did you get the same types of things? Cause it's almost like the same guitar sound...
Hellhammer: Well, no. He used...the guitar he used was a Gibson Les Paul, and he had this old Marshall, and...his effects boxes was 2 simple boxes. A "heavy metal" box, which he connected together with another fuzz box, I think it was Tube Screamer or Overdrive or something...?

Ibanez Tube Screamer...?
Hellhammer: He connected the two together, and when he had his Marshall at a very low volume, it gave this extremely crunch sound. It was very raw, but it was still distinct, so that's what we used for De Misteriis. Blasphemer uses Crate amplifiers. The sound is not so grim, but it's not so sharp, either. I think on the new record, we will try to go for a much bigger sound than we did on "Wolf's Lair Abyss".

Are you finished recording the new album?
Hellhammer: No, we will go in the studio...it's being delayed and delayed. Probably we will go in the studio around, I'd say that we'll wait 'til autumn.

Really? So just a bunch of shows in the meantime...?
Hellhammer: Well, [we] really hope to also tour the states again, next autumn.

You have [the songs] all written already?
Hellhammer: Not every one. It's still in the works. It takes time, it takes lots of time, because Blasphemer is very, very picky about this stuff. He writes almost everything now, and we have to be in the mood to create such music. Any percents, like a half song, 50% of a song on the rehearsal, I come up with a drum beat after some days and Maniac starts singing and maybe we just find out that hmm, it's not working. And then it's back to the works again to rearrange it.

Same with me. We do that, too...we're a band for 4 years, we have 11 songs. Pretty short ones, too. Exactly, if you're not feeling it, I just told everybody, "if I'm not feeling it, I'm not gonna play it."
Hellhammer: Yeah, exactly.

And sometimes, it might grow on you later, but otherwise...I think a lot of bands that just get together, record a demo, go record an album in one year...well, I understand, somebody gets inspried, but too many people, "Oh, this riff sounds good, let's record it." No, fuck off. There's too much shit out there that way.
Hellhammer: Yeah, it is. They just start jamming, for instance, and tape the whole thing, and they think, "Oh this riff was cool" and they use that, and just like mix it together to create a song. And I don't think that's right.

Just a bunch of riffs tossed together, it's just not gonna work.
Hellhammer: Look at, [laughs], well, not to compare or anything, but look at the great composers of time. They didn't make an opus for about, I mean, two weeks, it took years to complete.

There's absolutely no reason you shouldn't think like that. I was telling, my own philosophy, I go, "Listen, we may never be as big as this band or this band, but there's no reason we can't write songs as good as Mayhem or Slayer or Metallica or everybody we look up to. There's no reason we can't put that kind of effort and come out with a song that's that good. That's how you think, you aim for the very, very top. You don't just sit there and say, 'we'll never be that good.' There's no reason you canhave that kind of impact." Again, the stuff you guys have already created I think has had that kind of impact. You wait on it, but, what is this, Mayhem's 12 years and what, 2 mini-cd's and one album and one live album. But it's not quantity material, it's quality material.
Hellhammer: Yeah, like De Misteriis, for example, took 6 years to create. Of course, we had lots of problems in the meantime...and stuff like that, but, I mean 6 years from the very beginning when we started writing Funeral Fog and Freezing Moon and stuff. The last 4 songs filled the album...a long time, but...I also think that it became a very classic album.

Which ones are your favorite songs to play live? I think my favorite song on that is either Cursed For Eternity or Life Eternal also...I mean, I love all of them, but Cursed For Eternity, I just go apeshit over that, but I think it's such a very...your drum beats are just, it's very hypnotic, so I imagine you might just get bored playing it live or something...
Hellhammer: What I like to play most live is mostly the new songs, actually. But I also like very much to play real old songs, for example, "Necrolust".

I wanna hear that promo version, too, from that CD. I haven't heard that yet.
Hellhammer: Oh, speaking of strictly De Misteriis, the one that I enjoyed playing most in the studio was De Misteriis, the track. That was very cool to play, and also, yeah Cursed To Eternity, cool to play.

Yeah, with the vocals, it's just an insane song. The thing about guitar tone, I think what's nice is he has the guitar tone, but it's tone, it's perfect tone. Especially on, what's pointed [it] out is in Fall of Seraphs, at the very end, when you start that part that you stop and you start again, that last riff in the song?
Hellhammer: On Fall of Seraphs?

Yeah. It's like, you have the blasting and then you go to double bass, and Blasphemer has that high note guitar, and you hear the bass underneath it, and the bass is all fuzzy and disorted and almost sounds like another guitar track...
Hellhammer: Yeah, it does, actually...

I think it's awesome, cause all the low end is handled by the bass. On all the guitar, it's just the tone. You don't have that "fucking brutal" death metal guitar tone that every band wants, the crunchiest...Which, it's not that it's bad to have that kind of tone, but everybody drowns out the bass, and what becomes the point of the bass after a while? Whereas, on this, the bass is taking care of the low end and it's just real thick, meaty, really good bass. I think it's very grim.
Hellhammer: Yeah, Necrobutcher's bass has always been an important part of Mayhem. And, if Necrobutcher is going to quit or going to die or something, then we will definitely have his equipment [laughs]...so Blasphemer can record a bass too...if that's going to happen [laughs].

Is he in danger of it anytime soon?
Hellhammer: I don't know, he's been quite unhappy now because of police stuff, jail, things like that. So...I think that he manage that just incase, because Necro's bass sound is a very integral part of the Mayhem sound.

Do you have any thoughts on [drum machines]? Do you think they're okay for certain things, or you don't like them at all?
Hellhammer: I like drum machines, because you can program the pattern on that, and you can play acoustic drums against it. Drum machines, it's a very good rehearsing tool or practice tool. But for music, using drum machines as a substitute for a drummer, it's totally useless and hopeless. For certain types of music it's okay, but I could never see like Slayer or Metallica or any other band without the live drummer.

Do you still keep in touch with Mysticum?
Hellhammer: Ahh...quite a long time since I've seen them now, actually.

Yeah, they're very hard to get a hold of. They don't answer their mail or anything.
Hellhammer: They're totally drug addicts [laughs].

I'm sorry?
Hellhammer: They're totally into drugs now.

I gathered that. When I met them in New York, they were chronically...they were very cool guys, but they were just chronically high. It was just funny. I just got a brief interview with them, this is a long time ago, when they were in Florida I sent it to Fullmoon, so they answered some things. They're one of my favorite bands, too, and I'm waiting for them to record again. I know you used to rehearse with them, and, at least the stuff on the first album isn't, it doesn't seem like it's impossible to play, but they do some stuff which seems like it would get very, very tiring for a human drummer.
Hellhammer: Yeah. Robin [laughs]...he's good at creating like impossible drum licks. So, for me, "Hey Robin, can [I] create something interesting now..." Because, at that time, and I still have, actually, I've had 3 high hats. The conventional high hat on the left, attached very close to the left bass drum pedal, and I have this AUX hat which I talked about. But I also have like a remote hat, a cable high hat, which, the foot pedal plate is close to the right bass drum pedal. And then I play, for instance, 16th notes, 'diga-diga-diga,' on the bass drum, and play the high hat at the same time. So it's like 'chika-chika-chik' and 'diga-diga-ding' at the same time. So I have a hand free, for example, to play like syncopated stuff on the ride cymbal while the high hats and bass drums are going, and I have the other hand to create some interesting stuff on the snare and toms, so it's kinda of an "orchestra," actually.

Yeah, it's just being creative. That's the one thing, I think you have the technical brilliance and you have a lot of creativity, so it makes a really good combination.
Hellhammer: Thanks. I actually have a very odd idea about a drum part in one of the new songs. I also have two snare drums on my kit, one in the middle of the bass drums and one to the left.

I thought you had 3?
Hellhammer: I had 3, but I took one away because space problems...I substitute that space with some splashes now [laughs]. Maybe I told you about that, it's an idea I have which is going to sound like two drummers. Did I tell you about that?

I don't think so...
Hellhammer: Okay. You have the blast beat, and you create that by playing on your right bass drum pedal together with the cable high hat at the same time. In the middle you use your right hand for the main snare.

You mean you're going between the high hat and the snare with one hand?
Hellhammer: No, you use the right hand only on the main snare. The other beats are like, for the bass drum, you hit the bass drum with the right foot and also pedal the cable high hat at the same time, by pressing, by having a real big foot (laugh), because the pedals are placed very close together. So, then you can, with just one foot and one arm, you can create this blast beat which sounds like 3 limbs.

Thank you. I was going to ask you...Funeral Fog. The drum roll you do at the first riff [I hum the riff]...and that drum roll you're doing, I'm like, "How the..." You're hitting the ride at the same time, or the high hat. I'm like, "Does this guy have 6 arms or something, what the hell is this?"
Hellhammer: That's like triplets between two bass drums and alternating between the toms with my left arm.

That's what I did at home, I was doing double bass and I would keep hitting the ride with one arm, and I would use the other arm on the toms, and I would just do a roll, but I couldn't do them as full sounding. Either you're doing like really, really...a lot of triplets and the toms are just loud, or there's something else going on.
Hellhammer: The toms have a lot of reverb on them. I guess it sounds bigger than it actually is. But it's no overdubs or anything, I played everything at like one take. A lot of people have asked me about that, though. It's like, "Hmm, I see you have made an overdub here." And I said, "What?? Of course not!" And I show them how it's done and they're like, "Oh," [laughs]. They can hear the ride or the high hat go at the same time, and then they wonder...they also wonder quite a bit on the track, the slow track...

Life Eternal?
Hellhammer: Life Eternal, yeah. There's a section in the middle there where the guitar goes alone...

That's the fucking best part of the whole album! It's so dark, it's amazing.
Hellhammer: And then they hear this chika-chika-chika with the high hats going on, and then they hear me (adapting) some crashes here and there and they ask, "Hmm..?" Okay. But what I did then, actually, the sound that you hear at the beginning, this chika-chika-ching is me pedaling the conventional high hat and the cable high hat...

Oh so you're using your feet to do that?
Hellhammer: Yes. And I play the bass drums at the same time, and later at the end of the riff I go over to 16th notes on the high hat, like the regular way. People think that, when this record came out, I think in Norway it was '93 or something, they thought that it was a good deal of overdubs, and they also thought that I had actually speeded up the drums, back then. Today, it's not fast, by no means, but back then it was quite fast and some people, "Hmm, he has been speeding up the drums," but I have actually never ever speeded up anything.

I heard rumors about that, too, they came later...I go, "I don't think so, I've seen him play it live." That was the nicest thing, when I saw in Milwaukee, I was just like, "See, there you go. No bullshit here."
Hellhammer: [laughs]

Did you meet Gene Hoglan when he came to do that Old Man's Child album?
Hellhammer: No.

Do you like his style of drumming?
Hellhammer: He's very good at combinations between bass drums and tom toms, very good at that. He's a very good drummer, and it should be really cool to meet him, but I don't have the pleasure of doing that yet.

Some day. I'll go back to that, some of your favorite drummers you think you have. I just had this discussion, like Sean Reinhart, Cynic, he played in Death, too. I don't know if you have any favorite drummers, modern drummers, metal and non-metal?
Hellhammer: When I started out, my favorite drummer, my role model so to speak, was Impaler of Motorhead. He had this incredible quick, at that time, right hand, with these 16th notes on the high hat, but playing this punk beat. And open and closing the high hat, it was so cool. The same goes for the drummer in Ramones, Marky Ramone or no, Joey Ramone..? Later it was like Clive Burr from Iron Maiden...he became a huge influence on me. I [set up] my drum kit the same way as he did [laughs]. Today, I don't think I have a favorite drummer, but I really think that Nicko Mcbrain from Iron Maiden is played, he was actually a big influence on me back in the Aspera... days of Arcturus.

When that album came out, that's I think when your technical stuff really got out there. People were like, "Ok...this guy..." I noticed it before, especially on the Arcturus stuff, it was simple stuff but it was so well done. But Aspera... came out and that started, as far as the complex shit goes, I think that's when that started to roll...
Hellhammer: Yeah, it's a very good album, but it's a shame, it should have been better produced. By the way, there's also no triggers on that album.

Oh, there's no triggers?
Hellhammer: No.

Fantastic.
Hellhammer: You asked me why I use triggers, one of the reasons is that you can get a much better sound, you are coming better much better across when you use triggers. When you play festivals and stuff like that.

[I thought he said "faster"] Yeah, I think the fast things, especially, the double bass and everything, it's so hard to pick it up otherwise.
Hellhammer: Actually, using triggers, it can cause a little bit of cheating because you can adjust your drum module to...when it's constant velocity. Like, a soft stroke is going to sound the same all the time. At the studio now, I won't use...I will maybe trigger the bass drums, but no toms and no snare drum.

The bass drum is always so hard to get a good recordable sound out of, anyway. I mean, it sounds goofy, but South of Heaven, which I can't tell...I know it's got the click, but theres' such a punch, I love that drum sound. But, I don't know if you listen to old Motley Crue at all...
Hellhammer: Motley Crue?

Yeah.
Hellhammer: Yeah!

Like Shout At The Devil...
Hellhammer: Yeah, yeah.

That's the best drum sound, that's my favorite drum sound. Just cause, the thing is, it's simple beats in there, but it's totally real and I love that. I have a big 24x24 bass drum, it's huge...
Hellhammer: 24x24?

Yeah [laughs].
Hellhammer: [laughs]

It was an old kit, a friend of mine didn't want it, he just needed a small punk kit, so he was getting rid of this one. It was cheap, I bought it from him, I go, "Look even if I don't need this I'll buy it." I bought it and we were messing with it, and I think we got a real good tone in the studio, we just have to go back and remix it and everything. I wanted to send you the tape but we had to remix it, but it's a real thick, it sounds like a trigger, but it's no trigger.
Hellhammer: That's cool.

With that thing, you've got such volume, you can work with it, but otherwise it's so hard to get a good kick drum sound. Anyway...
Hellhammer: By the way, when the kick drum became this long, usual size is like 16 or 18...when it became as big as 24, it was long, then the response of trying to play the kick drum fast, it became a big pain in the ass, actually. The more shallow the drum is, the easier it is to get a good response from the drum. So I have a hard time playing real fast on that drum, I guess...

I have those Axis pedals, and they pick up pretty well, but yeah it is, comparitively speaking, it's got such more boom, it doesn't kick back as hard as a smaller drum does, you're right.
Hellhammer: For playing fast, the ideal stuff should really be a 20x14" kick drum, really. For this kind of exteme fast metal stuff...for rock n' roll and stuff, it's good to have a big, boomy sound, but I think that...I've seen also a lot drummers including myself go back to using light sticks, lighter, smaller cymbals, and the more things that jazz drummers are using, when it comes to extreme metal. Before, it was a spoken rule that, "well, if you play metal, you're going to use these huge, long sticks, you have to use like 20" crash cymbals and 15" high hat..."

And double bass and everything...
Hellhammer: ...and of course, an 8" deep snare. Today we use smaller kick drums and thinner and smaller crash cymbals, darker sounding ride and high hats, we have piccolo drums which was originally for fusion players, and using lighter, much lighter sticks. [The] drummer in Dimmu Borgir uses 5A, he has 20" kick drums and very light cymbals, and I think...I was thinking of it the other day, actually. They are into this extreme metal playing, going actually back to, they're like jazz and fusion drummers are.

I was just getting sick of carrying the big stuff. I go, "Look, I'm going to buy one small 20" bass drum, one snare, one tom, maybe a couple cymbals..." because I was getting so sick of carrying the big set around anyway. You know Chuck Biscuits from Danzig, well D.O.A., also...?
Hellhammer: Yeah...

It was nice...you'd see him, he's in a metal band but he had that small punk set and he did such amazing stuff with such a small set, it was very cool.
Hellhammer: (something) feel like the drummer in Voivod, for instance. He used this extremely big set before, and when I saw him play in Oslo one half year ago, he used a 4 piece drum kit with 3 cymbals. By the way, I heard he was dead now...

The drummer? Oh, I heard about that, there was some bus accident or something?
Hellhammer: Yeah, because they were supposed to play at some festival. I was playing there together with Covenant and they were supposed to come but I heard their bus had an accident.

Shit. I don't exactly remember if one them died or was badly injured or something, but, that sucks.
Hellhammer: Well, well.

Do you still work at the mental institution?
Hellhammer: Absolutely, yeah [laughs].

You still a night watchman?
Hellhammer: Yeah.

I remember reading that long ago. I said, "I'm gonna go move to Norway and get a job and get lessons from Hellhammer one day."
Hellhammer: [laughs] I still work there, I actually worked there last night.

Do you ever come across anything really exciting, or is it usually pretty quiet?
Hellhammer: Usually pretty quiet, tonight actually I had to be a little bit rough because one patient was like...um, very unpleasant. I've worked with this stuff like 5 years now and I feel that my temper, I have a very short fuse [laughs], so...maybe I'll get fired or something for being violent to the patient, I don't know, but...I don't care, I've worked there for 5 years now and I'm sick of it! [laughs]

Does it help your mentality if you're trying to create any type of...does it make you pissed off enough to fucking play your drums...?
Hellhammer: No, when I'm pissed off I don't like to play drums. I like to play drums when I'm in total harmony with myself, when I feel that, "Hmm, I need to go play drums now." I do that, because I have a drum kit at home, or like an electronic drum kit. It's like, go and eat, go and drum, read little bit of a book, go drum, watch some drum videos, and then go drumming again. That's how my days are, because I work at night and I'm alone here in the house the whole day before my girlfriend returns.

How many hours a day do you practice?
Hellhammer: Not so much as I should. Before, I was practicing like up to 7 hours in a row, every day, but today it's like seldom more than half an hour in a row, and then I'll take a break, but then I go back again and play. I still play, but not for so long because I don't like playing electronic kits, I like the acoustic stuff, and my drum kit is at the rehearsal space, and it's a drag going there just to play. Before, when I was living at my parents' house, I had a drum kit in my room. I was sitting there always, playing and playing to records, all the time, sometimes up to 7 hours in a row. I wish I could have an acoustic drum kit here, but there's space problems. Besides, the neighbors would go crazy [laughs].

Do you still give lessons or anything?
Hellhammer: Yeah, I do that now to the drummer of Dimmu Borgir. We meet like 2 times a week and I give him lessons and things to learn them at home. He's the classic example of a student who's like, "Show me something cool" and he sits beside and I watch him, and I play some licks and then he wants to try to play it immediately after, but he has a hard time doing that, of course, because it takes at least some time practice to master it, and I tell him to, "Hey, go home and work at your rudiments and stuff like that first, so you get a good foundation to build on." You don't fill out the strong foundation, you can't really, if you learn something new, it would be so good and so secure if you have this real well built foundation. So it's very important to learn the real basic things right, first, before you attempt on going on (something), and trying this technical things because then these things will come across very badly, very poorly.

A lot of it is just drillwork, just doing it over and over. I guess it might get boring but you have to do it, and then at some point finally you can put it to use.
Hellhammer: Yeah, absolutely. Because each time you're practicing, say rudiments, you might feel that you're not going anywhere, that you have (made it), you know? But, the fact is, while that you feel this, you are exactly, you're building...well, I don't know how to pronounce it in English [laughs]

Foundation, technique?
Hellhammer: When you play these rudiments over and over again, sometimes you feel that this is going nowhere, but it actually isn't true, because each time you get a little bit better, you work on the stuff, you're secure about them, suddenly it all clicks together.

How much stuff do you listen to?
Hellhammer: I listen to very much, actually. Much of the music I listen to is just for listening to the drummer. For instance, well, hip-hop groups and stuff. It's like, some of the hip-hop albums, it's like drum machines, but it's kind of a gold-mine for me to pick up on, because it's unknown territory drum-wise for metal drummers in general. I try to adapt that and learn styles from that, and try to copy some of the stuff that I hear which I think is cool, and play it myself. It's cool to play, it's very different groove, actually...

Yeah, you can always shove it into something you're doing...
Hellhammer: Absolutely. That's what I did before, I played in a progressive metal band at the same time as I played in Arcturus, before, and it was very rewarding for me, because, then again I could take these impressions that I have from that band and mix it into Mayhem stuff. So I feel that a lot of black metal drummers are listening only to black metal and they can't play anything but black metal or metal, and then their playing becomes very one dimensional.

We had this discussion with my friends, because mostly I listen to metal, but I've gotten into a lot more different stuff. I just don't have money to go buy CD's all the time, but I'm very lucky because my friends listen to so many different things, they have 1,000 cd's a piece. So, they'll introduce me to a lot of stuff, and we were just playing around, we like Bauhaus kinda beats, or Christian Death, or punk bands, hardcore bands. whatever. We just try to shove all sorts of different influence into the songs and say, "Okay, well, I have this riff and it sounds like a Mayhem kinda riff," "All right, well take this Mayhem riff and put a Bauhaus drum beat to it, see what you come up with." Something like that...it's just fun to at least mess around with, and then you might come up with something later on.
Hellhammer: Absolutely. Thats' a very good way to learn and make interesting things that you're actually pleased with yourself. [coughs] I'm sorry, I've got little bit cold here.

Half the people I know have colds. I'm able to stay away from it somehow, it's nice. I hope it stays away.
Hellhammer: That's good. Hopefully. Well, here in Norway it's very cold weather right now.

It's not too bad here, I figure over there...how long does it stay cold until?
Hellhammer: At least until March.

That's obnoxious.
Hellhammer: Yeah it is, and it starts like in November.

Does it just get really cold, I mean fucking cold?
Hellhammer: Yeah around January and stuff it's like (breath of air)...very cold. Lot of snow and stuff.

Do you find it amusing how, at least in my opinion the most important bands, Darkthrone and Mayhem, have seemed a bit ignored by a lot of the black metal fans that kinda just got into this. You have Cradle of Filth and Dimmu Borgir and all this, they're just doing their own thing, whatever. But I think, Mayhem and Darkthrone, who are in my opinion the most important out there, at least today...Graveland has their own type of following, too. I think they're one of the more cold, grim bands, and there's other such bands that hold their standing, but kinda where it all started, you guys, even though you had your problems, it's like you kinda got passed by. You still have a real quality fan base. The people who like Mayhem really like Mayhem. The same with Darkthrone, you have real hardcore fans, and it's like not everybody knows about or listens to these bands, but it's just kinda funny cause you got so many fans [of black metal] that just don't even know what you guys are about...
Hellhammer: That's true...it could be different if we years ago decided, which we didn't, but if we decided to sign on a big label and all that shit. We change, become mainstream and record a lot of albums and that, Mayhem could be a very huge band. But that was actually the least thing we wanted. We wanted Mayhem to stay underground. We wanted also, yeah as you said, quality before quantity.

It's nice if the band gets big, there's nothing wrong with that. Your message gets out there. However, it's funny how, exactly, if you don't have women all over your album covers or you're not writing about vampires and stuff like that and trying to be evil, you're not gonna sell albums.
Hellhammer: I'm actually sick of this stuff, with half-naked women all over and this vampire crap. I'm sick of it.

It's not even the bands that bug me, it's more the fans...
Hellhammer: Yeah, the fans. The fans, they see a half-naked lady on the album cover, and, "ah! I gotta have this!" So fucking stupid. These bands create music for like...I don't know, mindless teenagers?

I don't know, I'm just waiting for the trend to finish up and fuck off already. I'm so sick of this shit...I'm sure you have an idea.
Hellhammer: Well, people which is into that kind of music simply won't understand new Mayhem stuff, because it's so complicated, and they don't have...they won't understand what's going on [laughs].

Good, good.
Hellhammer: So the stuff that we're writing now is absolutely, as I said before, music for the experienced listener.

It's music for yourselves. You know exactly what's gonna keep you interested, so therefore the certain people will be able to appreciate it also. What do you think is the biggest criticism you've gotten on the new stuff is? I think, at least from what I've gathered, the biggest criticism on the Mayhem stuff seems to be the vocals, that everybody hates the vocals, and I go, "That's good, good, good, you should hate the vocals..."
Hellhammer: [laughs] On Wolf's Lair Abyss...well it was actually the same when Misteriis came out. Nobody actually liked Atilla's vocals but a few.

I love his vocals! They were weird at first, I go, "Whoa, what the hell," but they're so dark, they're incredible.
Hellhammer: We also got some criticism regarding Maniac's present singing style. I can understand to a certain point, it sounds one-dimensional and very screamy, but that's what we wanted it to sound like. For The Grand Declaration of War it's going to be much more varied, different singing. Also, they go a little bit back to stuff which he did on Deathcrush. The new album is going to be a real killer. They say in Germany, "killah..."

I remember when I first got Deathcrush, I put it in, I'm just like, "What the hell I am listening [to]?" I didn't know what to make of it. I love this music, but then his vocals come in, I'm just like, "What the fuck is he doing?" It sounds so bad, on one hand, but you gotta listen to it. He's just screaming his fucking lungs out. And then you get used to it. Once you get used to it, you're just like, "This is amazing." I don't know how many times we'd be driving and we put it in the fucking car and we blast is so loud, and we start headbanging while we're driving, and then we stop at the light, we're all going nuts in the car, people are looking at the car saying, "What the fuck's going on?" It's so funny. This brings me to the next point...Deathcrush...how many people have coverered that song and give it a tribute. I don't like most tribute albums, I think they've gotten out of hand, especially this new Darkthrone one. I don't like it very much at all, except a couple tracks I think are somewhat..but....
Hellhammer: Oh, I haven't even heard it...

Ehhh...I don't know, I read the interview with Fenriz and he likes it a lot, I know he's very pleased with it. From his point of view, I can see it, different versions of the songs...but, I don't even want to get into it, I'm gonna butcher my review of it. But, there's a Mayhem tribute coming out...
Hellhammer: I know, and Emperor is playing Funeral Fog, and they got Atilla on vocals. [laughs]

Are you kidding!?
Hellhammer: No it's true. Actually, we play[ed] the gig in Milano and suddenly Atilla was showing up there, from nowhere. We taped this gig , and..."Hey, long time no see." He actually joined Maniac on the last two tracks. It was Funeral Fog and...not Cursed To Eternity, but the other...

From the Dark Past?
Hellhammer: From the Dark Past, yeah.

That's awesome. Wow, I'd like to see that. That's good, because my main problem, Emperor did the Cromlech cover. The music is perfect, it's incredible. I knew they'd do a good job. Then the vocals come in and they sound like utter shit. I just got so pissed off, I go, "What the fuck is wrong with this guy!??"
Hellhammer: It sounds like a wolf on the window or something, like "wecchhhhaaaaa!!" I don't know...

Yeah, his vocals on the mini-cd, on the split they did with Enslaved, they're the best vocals he's every done in my opinion. They're fantastic, and if he had that kind of voice, that track would have been one of the best I've ever heard by Emperor. But, his vocals are just weak, so if they have Atilla singing on the Mayhem song, I think that'd be very interesting. I know Keep of Kalessin said they're doing Buried By Time And Dust, and I don't know what else is on it, but I said, "You know, Mayhem plays Mayhem songs better than every one of you guys do..."
Hellhammer: This Emperor track is quite good played and stuff like that, and Atilla's vocals are fantastic, but...the atmosphere is gone, actually. Sad but true, there's something missing. I don't know, it's just a feeling that is gone, but...good drum playing in the song. They play it actually a little bit faster...

I'm curious to hear it. Mayhem's stuff, I'll listen to it, and I'll be like, okay I'll go home and I just play it on my guitar. I know pretty much the whole album, De Misteriis.., and it's not very hard to play, unless you feel it. There's certain things he's picking, and I meant to ask you, when he recorded, Euronymous, did he downpick a lot of it, just downpicking, or did he double pick? Like, single picking, just down, like 1-1-1, or did he do it like 2, down and up, and down and up, like fast double-picking, for a lot of the chords...?
Hellhammer: Well, Euronymous was extremely fast on picking. His hand was just a blur, like 'ddddrrrrrrrrrr'. I remember he told me how much he could do in one second. It was...very much. How much was it...*thinks*...well, he's definitely double picking.

Okay. Some of it's so fast, like the first riff in say, Life Eternal (I hum the riff), it just sounds like he's downpicking it really fast, almost like punk style picking. Just real aggressive, fast downpicking. He's got a bunch of different guitar tracks, anyway...
Hellhammer: Like 3 at most...but...let me see how much did he get in a second. I'm still thinking about that.

[laughs] That's what I try to do, at least my hand, I try to play faster downpicking like that. Yeah, it's the feeling about the albums, I'm just trying to play them and sometimes...I was gonna just record it and see if I could just mimic it myself, cause that's how I really like the style. It's just real basic, simple, some of the chords [riffs] are just 3 frets, but the way he picks them, the feeling is totally there. You will not able to play it correctly unless you've got the feeling.
Hellhammer: That's true.

I'm just skeptical. I don't like tribute albums. Especially that one.
Hellhammer: It's gotten out of hand, everybody's doing this tribute shit now.

Yeah. Well, there's gonna be a Morbid Angel tribute, and then the Deicide tribute, and Burzum tribute, which I heard was supposed to happen anyway, and all these fucking tributes are going to come out, watch.
Hellhammer: Yeah, it's boring, actually. Motorhead tribute from Dwell Records...

Motorhead one? Is that out already?
Hellhammer: Yeah, I got [a] letter from Dwell Records saying that...well, some posters. It's out anytime now.

That ought to be interesting. What the hell. I'm sorry, we're talking about tribute albums and I got sidetracked. I think it'd be kinda cool if you had a bunch of like, say, pop bands and they did a Darkthrone tribute, or you had a bunch of metal bands and they did a Christian Death tribute. That would be interesting.
Hellhammer: That would be interesting, yeah. No, it has become very boring now, with all these metal bands doing metal covers. It's never going to be like the original, anyway, so...

I'm sure you've had your share of "rock star" label. Everybody's like, "Hellhammer just wants to be a rock star" this and this and that. I go, "Look, I don't really fucking care one way or the other. Fine, if wants to enjoy himself, let him enjoy himself." But I think, ultimately the music speaks for its fucking self. You listen to the music, it's like, do you think...people wanna be rockstars, they're gonna play extreme metal? I don't know, I just don't understand it. Why would you sit there and play extreme underground metal, in order to...I mean, extreme metal can sell, yeah, but if you wanna sit there and actually make money, I don't understand why you'd play extreme metal...
Hellhammer: No, no. That's true. And for me, the word "rockstar"...is a very negative meaning. Because the word "rockstar" for me is like, don't speak to the fans and don't...well, just being a total asshole. [laughs] I mean, it's very important and it's very rewarding too to stay in touch with your fans, because without the fans, the band is nothing, actually. It's very important. And I get a lot of backup from Mayhem fans and Covenant fans, Arcturus fans, and it's totally cool. Fenriz had this idea once, too... "I'm well known now so I don't have to speak to anybody..." [laughs]. One of his moody changes, but he soon found out that, "This is not, heh, what I thought it to be," so he became his old self again. That is like...yeah, to speak and drink and...well, have a good time, as he probably would say...

Yeah, I'm just looking forward...I can get into a lot of other bands. Satyricon, I don't know what's up with them. Their first two albums are brilliant. The first one, they recorded on your drum set, right?
Hellhammer: Actually, Frost bought my drum kit. The black one, the Pearl GLX Super Pro.

So that's what he has now?
Hellhammer: Yeah, he has it now. The same one I recorded De Misteriis... on. The Burzum was recorded on that, also...

Which one, Hvis..?
Hellhammer: The first...let me think...well, yeah. Okay [laughs].

I didn't like anything after the second album [I meant Satyricon], so I don't know what's up with this new one. I'm kinda hoping it' s gonna be good, but I just...ehh, I don't know what's up with that.
Hellhammer: No, I don't know. I'm not too into this synth music which he creates now. [He meant Burzum, I didn't clarify]

Have you been working on either new Covenant or new Arcturus stuff?
Hellhammer: Actually, there's a new Arcturus coming out in the next week. It's called Masters of Disguise and it will contain 2 or 3 songs played by us, the Arcturus lineup, and the rest of the songs is like remix done in collaboration with other artists. It's only remix of the La Masquerade Inferale record, but there also is a completely new song by Arcturus, and also we were doing a re recording of Du Nordavind from Aspera... and Constellation. It's out anytime now.

Constellation. When I first heard that, I was just like, "Wow." It was just incredible, with the keyboards. I think Limbonic Art has kind of followed in that path...
Hellhammer: They have, yeah...

But the drum machine, which, I think they're one of the best bands that do that. But there's a lot of other bands that started with the synth-synth and it's like, "No, you guys aren't as good."
Hellhammer: They do the drum machines very tactfully, actually, and create very interesting beats around the drum machine, but it would be so great to see that band live or hear it on record with a live drummer.

Limbonic Art, you mean?
Hellhammer: Yeah.

I sent an interview, I think it got confused [with another 'zine] a while ago, but one of the [questions] I asked was like, was it weird for them to play with a traditional metal band, that has just drummer and guitarist, and then all of a sudden, they come on with their synths and the drum machine. I was wondering if that was kind of weird or goofy for the audience or not, but I guess they're supposed to come off very good live...
Hellhammer: I've heard that, yeah. I've never heard them live, but people say that it isn't that weird. But you can never replace a live drummer. But of course, for bands like Mysticum, their music is good with this kind of drum machine stuff. For Mysticum, it's okay...

Yeah, they're very good live, too, they're just insane live. One of the best live bands I've ever seen.
Hellhammer: Yeah they look very cool live! [laughs]

Cerastes' eyes roll back into his head and stuff...
Hellhammer: Yeah [laughs]...

That cross, too, that's Euronymous' cross he's got, right?
Hellhammer: Yeah, that's true.

That's cool. I just saw that, I go, "Whoa...look at that." Have you ever seen Pitch Shifter?
Hellhammer: I've never seen them, but I just heard one of their records.

I saw them, I think they opened for Morbid Angel, this is years ago. It's pretty cool, they had some [drums] sampled and also the drummer was standing, and he had a tom and a couple other ones and was playing along with the samples. It was very interesting, very weird...
Hellhammer: The same as Samael is doing...

He plays live, his drums?
Hellhammer: They have samples and I guess that they also hit some drums once in a while, too.

That's cool, I haven't seen them in years. I'd like to see them again sometime soon.
Hellhammer: Chris from Samael, he did lights for us at the Covenant tour last year. I remembered him because he and another guy in Samael, I don't remember his name, was actually visiting us in Norway in this record shop, Helvete, many years ago. I remember him there, and he remembered me, "Oh, yeah...of course..!"

Oh, so did you used to work at Helvete?
Hellhammer: Well, it was like me and Euro's shop.

With Covenant, I like the first one, I don't like the second one much. I think I wrote that in my original [letter]. I like the first couple of songs. After a while it just sounded like Swedish death metal. I listened to it and I liked the drums...
Hellhammer: It does. I totally agree...it's nice sounding in a commercial way. In Covenant, I just play drums...and...shut up [laughs].

I see, I see. Definitely a good experience...
Hellhammer: Yeah it is. It's like, it requires a total different playing style for Covenant and, for example, Mayhem. And for me, it's very rewarding to play different styles. In Covenant, my abilities of playing slower stuff is coming through.

That definitely helps. I joined a doom band...I don't know if you remember the stuff I gave you at the metal show [Milwaukee], it was that Novembers Doom CD. There's fuckups on there, it's not the best I could have ever done, but I was just learning to play this real slow, doom style, and it helped so much from the fast stuff I used to do before. I don't know, now it's like I can't even sit there and play a fast thing and slow thing, I have to start goofing around. I can't even play straight now, I haven't played my drums in a while, I just kind of miss it. But I sat down to play and I got so bored, so I said, "Shit, I need something new."
Hellhammer: What kind of cymbals do you have?

I have some old ones. I had a couple Zildjian ones and [they] cracked. I had a Zildjian 16" Avedis, I had an A custom, and that one cracked, and then I had a Sabian Metal Crash which fucking cracked now. I just got this new Zildjian Custom, it's a Z Custom Bell so it's got this huge fucking bell in the middle [of] the ride...
Hellhammer: Oh yeah, the Mega Bell ride...

Yeah, the Mega Bell. It's very loud. I had a [Sabian] B8 Pro ride, also, which is a little bit better tone for the studio, it's much better because the other one is too fucking loud. Then I have a Sabian AA high hat. I was debating between that and a Zildjian, but I got the Sabian. I need to get new cymbals at some point cause mine are fucking all cracking. I like the A Customs, the Zildjians a lot. I was wondering, because I looked and my favorite bands all use Paiste, and I was looking at those and everybody I talk to says, "No, they crack very easily, they're shitty cymbals..."
Hellhammer: Yeah. Really, you just have to look at them, and they crack. Paiste have wonderful...especially their rides and high hats, but the crashes and chinas crack very, very easily. I found out that the best for me is Sabian HH series.

I looked at those, I haven't tried them yet, though...
Hellhammer: For high hats, for main high hats, I use 13" fusion hats with extremely heavy hand hammered bottom cymbal. I use 2 bottoms, one on top and one on bottom for that, to get really, really heavy stuff. For rides, I have 22" HH Neil Peart ride, which I used on every record except for ...Misteriis, because this has [a] very dry quality, very dark and dry, and you can hit with the shoulder of the stick as hard as you can and it still sounds very clean, articulate without becoming washy or noisy. Crashes are all like Sabian HH series, which I'm very, very happy about. Try them out if you like crash sounds which are not too obnoxious.

That's a really good way to put it. I really liked that A Custom, cause it had a nice, very 'sssssshhhhhh', you could really feel the cymbal.
Hellhammer: Yeah, they are actually the best Ziljdians, A crashes...

Yeah, but it just fucking cracked. I was getting sick of all the other cymbals I saw. [They had] a very metal, tinty sound, I don't want that. I want that,"You can tell it's not a big piece of metal, you can tell what the hell it is." Yeah, I'll go look into those [HH's].
Hellhammer: Absolutely. At one gig I just played in London, I had this Zildjian A, it was a fucking 18" rock crash. It was thick as a ride cymbal, and when I hit it, it [would] run for days, like 'rrrriinnnnng'...

[laughs]
Hellhammer: ...totally messed up everything. I like 16" cymbals, or 17", but they [have] to be dark sounding. To blend with the music rather than stick out and be obnoxious and bleed all over the place.

I see what you mean. Although, sometimes, incase you want the cymbal to do that, but most cases you don't, when you're playing faster, you don't want the cymbal to fucking [drown] all the damn drums...
Hellhammer: Yeah, that too, with this kind of, for Mayhem, extreme metal fast stuff, small, quick crashes and articulate, very dry ride cymbal and high hats that are not noisy is best, actually.

What about your future goals, you think you'll ever play on, what is it, Spellemannsprisen, I think?
Hellhammer: [laughs] Actually I'm going there in 2 weeks because Covenant is nominated.

Oh ok, yeah I heard Dimmu Borgir and what is it, Mundanus Imperium?
Hellhammer: Yeah that's true. Covenant is favored for winning this stupid award. Well, I can always go and have a good laugh at the others and [laughs]...but, for me, this is like...for Norwegian music business, this is the most sacred thing. And we have plans real fuckup everything.

[laughs] Really?
Hellhammer: Yeah, it's broadcasted directly on Norwegian television. I know Dimmu Borgir is going to rent, they are going to do their Satanic stuff and they rent some female strippers...[laughs]

That'll be funny...
Hellhammer: The Norwegian people are going to freak out, and ha ha...

I wonder, as far as culture there goes...I'll go online and talk to people and chat, a lot of Norwegian people I know are into the metal or they're just very...very outgoing, really into partying and things like that [note - uhh...not all of them, but some, and this is only underground metal people], and that's the only exposure I have. The friends I have are very outgoing [note - HAHA what the hell am talking about?], just really into doing whatever, blah blah blah...I don't know what the mass culture is like. I know here, I do my own thing, I'm with my own friends, I'm always telling everybody to fuck off or whatever...like tv shows in here, I don't watch TV or anything like that, I don't like the mass culture. So over there, I know they teach you christianity in schools and stuff when you're young, but I don't know how much power it really has, or...?
Hellhammer: They have a christian party now, which is ruling Norway. It's Norway, you know? So this is going to be a good opportunity for us to just say "fuck off" to everything, every crap [laughs].

They don't even play metal on TV or even radio, it's very hard to find metal radio shows. There's not big ones anymore, there's just a lot of small, college radios that play metal. Even on MTV they don't have any more metal shows or any bullshit like that.
Hellhammer: I guess this "Headbanger's Ball" is taken off the air or something?

In the U.S. they took it off years ago. All they were playing was fucking glam metal bands. I used to listen to glam metal for a while when I was a kid. I just got MTV for the first time and stuff, so I got into all this, Guns N' Roses and Poison and all that stuff, and then I stopped and I got into Metallica and Slayer, Anthrax, all that, and so I was just like ,"Fuck all this," and I'd be watching MTV and they kept playing the glam metal, and I said, "What the hell is this? Fuck this." And then later on when glam metal completely died out, no more at all, it's just like, well, okay, justice is served...but, we saw MTV had this big special and they were interviewing all these old guys in all these bands and they showed what they were all doing. It was actually a very, very cool thing to watch, what some of these guys were saying. They're like, "you know what? We knew a lot of it was just stupid shit but we just wanted to have a good time and party." Which makes sense...some friends of mine are still really into the glam stuff. They donreally poof their hair out and stuff anymore, maybe sometimes, but it's just kinda funny. They have some bands here, they're like tribute bands, they dress up like Poison and Warrant and those big bands and they play shows, it's just funny to watch. I think at this point everybody understands they're out to have a good time, they admit that they like to fuck around and this and that, which is okay, but there's a lot of comparisons been made to black metal where they said, "Well that's the glam metal of the 90's," because everybody likes to dress up and wear makeup and leather. And when you used to wear make up and leather in the 80's, you were a poser. And so now it's kinda like "What the hell is this?" I like leather and stuff like that myself, it's my favorite clothing, it's funny kinda what it's come to, I don't know, I'm thinking at some point it'll take a big crash...
Hellhammer: It's all on the way among the black metal "heads" so to speak. You can still tell who's a poser and who's not one because there is a lot posers in this black metal scene. By posers, I mean people who just dress up just for sake of dressing up, they don't any meanings or feelings behind it. I was also listening to glam metal before, but these very early bands was like...they were die-hard glam metal bands, and the newer glam metal bands came, they just wanted to dress up because it was a trend. It is the same thing indeed with black metal. You have this kind of die-hard, true, heh "true" bands [laughs]...I don't like using that word...

I know what you mean, I totally know what you mean...
Hellhammer: So...yeah.

Do you still keep in touch with a lot of the other, older bands? As I mentioned before, when I talked to Equimanthorn (from Dark Funeral), I asked him, "Well how do you play so fast?" And he's like, "Well it's a trick I learned from Hellhammer..." And it's like, when you're using both feet to play the fast, and you're playing fast with one hand, but you're using both feet to alternate between the kick drums, right?
Hellhammer: Yeah, that's true...

Yeah, so he said he learned that, so I wondered if...one band I'm waiting for is Blackmoon's band, it's called Inferal. I'm really waiting for that, I don't know anybody that speaks to him. Even Necropolis, when I talk to them, they say, "Look, he doesnreturn our faxes or anything.." So I wonder if any of you guys keep in touch...?
Hellhammer: I talked to him...it is some months ago, but we're in touch.

There's a few people I'm really waiting to hear something....Mayhem's pretty much the only thing as far as metal goes. Mysticum also, but I have no fucking clue when they'll record. And I'm also waiting for Blackmoon's band, Infernal, because I don't like the new Dark Funeral album at all. It's kinda one of those tossups, I think, like the 3rd Ulver, the 3rd Saytricon and this Dark Funeral, it's kinda like you love 'em or you hate 'em sorta thing. I'm waiting for his band Infernal because the fax I got from him long time ago said it was kinda in the vein of new Mayhem-ish/Bathory sort of style, it sounded very interesting. It's nice that people are still kinda laying low. When It fled from Sweden or something like that, that was kind of a goofy thing, "What the fuck is this...?"
Hellhammer: [Light laugh]

And Jon [Nordveit] being in prison and stuff, so it's kinda like some key figures have been kind of eliminated, it's just kinda silly, like what the hell. But it's still good that Morgan/Marduk is big around and still doing it cause they keep pushing barriers I think, which is nice...
Hellhammer: Yeah, they are. I used to stay very much in contact with the Marduk guys before, but now I haven't heard from them for like 6 months or something. I guess if he has moved...Marduk I don't know nothing about anymore, actually.

I think he's got a Pearl kit, too, actually. That snare drum on Heaven Shall Burn... was a real good snare.
Hellhammer: Yeah, yeah it's a very clear sound on his drums.

What studio are you guys gonna go to?
Hellhammer: I don't know, actually. I don't think that we will go to the Abyss Studio because everybody's going there. Even Marduk is going, Enslaved is going there, Immortal is going there now...

Oh, for the new one?
Hellhammer: Yeah [laughs]. Everybody's going there now. And, of course, original as we are [laughs], I really think that we will use Studio Studio again, but in time we'll have much more money to record and we will maybe have kind of a producer which is helping us to produce...

Do you have anyone in mind?
Hellhammer: Ahhh, not really, actually...

Do you keep in touch with Pytten, still?
Hellhammer: There's quite a good time since I spoke to him, but I don't think that we'll use him because he only records [in] one place and that's Grieghallen. And...I think going back there now for Mayhem, I don't think that's very wise, actually. Because that's Pytten/Grieghallen and they're just like a closed chapter for Mayhem. By doing that, we would kind of [be] helping shadows from the past...

What's kind of funny...before, the recordings that came out of there used to be pretty raw. I mean, they were good [well] done but they were still fairly raw. Have you heard Aeternus?
Hellhammer: No...

They're from Bergen kind of area, Bønes/Bergen...they're a great Norwegian band, one of my favorite bands. Their Beyond the Wandering Moon, they recorded that Grieghallen, and it's a great production. It's clear, but it's still...it's just very powerful, good production on that, and it was at Grieghallen and I was like, "Oh wow, what is this?" You hear all these things that come out of Grieghallen that are pretty grim & raw, and all of a sudden this album came out. It was still a very dark album, but it's very good-produced. Have you thought about going to record drums in one studio and guitars somewhere else if they sound better in different studios?
Hellhammer: We actually talked about that in the last rehearsal, me recording the drums first, in say Studio Studio, and we go to a better studio to record the rest, but we don't know yet really what to do. We don't even know what label we're going to sign to.

[discuss some stuff about misanthropy & other things for a bit after this]

When I first heard about you signing to Misanthropy, I was like "What the hell is this, why are they signing to the same label as Burzum...??"
Hellhammer: Yeah [laughs]...

...it was one of those things. My friend is like, "Think about it. They're a good status label, they're a big label, they probably will give them a lot more attention..." We pretty much reasoned out...well it's pretty obvious, as far as metal labels go, they seemed the best suitable. They had the most resources and things like that. At first it was like "Whoa" but at this point Osmose seems to be the best choice...
Hellhammer: The reason for choosing Misanthropy was that, on that label we had the opportunity to say and do whatever we wanted at our tempo. If we said something which wouldn't appeal press-wise, then they wouldn't care. If we sign with Osmose, we have to be a little bit more careful what we say...we are trying to, Osmose would be kind of the little next step, because we would have to work a little bit harder, be a little bit more softer...?

That's what happened with Peaceville and Darkthrone. Darkthrone get accused of being Nazi's, and Peaceville, "You're gone." Whereas with Misanthropy, they're just like, "Well, fine. We have Burzum or we have Blood Axis..." I don't know if Blood Axis is necessarily nazi, I've just heard rumors, whatever...but...
Hellhammer: Well [laughs], Moynihan is total Nationalist...

Right, so you have him and you have Grishnackh or whatever preaching their stuff, but it's just like, "Whatever. We respect for them for their music. They wanna fucking be themselves, let them be themselves," which I think has much more integrity to it. It's just like, "Well fine. We're gonna sign a guy, we don't give a fuck, we like his music." Whereas, with Peaceville, they're just like, "Oh oh oh..." Fucking drop you at the drop of a penny when you're accused of being a nazi. I think that's bullshit.
Hellhammer: Well, no Mayhem is not a nazi band, Mayhem is not a political band at all. But, if we say something that is "bad", I think if the record label is going to interfere...therefore we can never ever sign on [a] German big label, like Nuclear Blast or that kind of shit...

I think they used to be a really good label at a time, I don't like anything they've put out [in] a long time.
Hellhammer: Cool guys. The guys from Nuclear Blast America are some very cool guys, but...

Just a lot of restrictions and stuff...
Hellhammer: Yeah it is. We're also maybe planning on signing, just skip everything and just sign Mayhem on a small Norwegian label which Garm actually has started.

I heard that's...new Ulver's on that, right?
Hellhammer: Yeah, just the record.

Have you even talked to Moonfog?
Hellhammer: About signing? I guess that we won't sign with Moonfog.

[We briefly talked about possibility of Arcturus signing with Moonfog back before Aspera, tape cut off & I missed rest of that, picks back up with Constellation talk. Mayhem signed with Season of Mist earlier this year]

I wish Samoth would repress the fucking Constellation. I was fortunate enough to get an LP, so I got it on LP now, I love it, and it's got the 7", too. I saw the name and I could never find the damn CD, and then finally when I found out it's all fucking sold out, 500 copies, I go, "Well what the fuck is this..."
Hellhammer: [laughs]

So now I have a friend that has the actual CD, so I said, "Well let me just copy your CD just to have one for myself." I figure, that's one of the gems that came out of the 90's in my opinion, why the hell is it limited? It just pisses me off. You should go talk to him, tell him to fucking repress it [laughs].
Hellhammer: Yeah [laughs]. Actually, this was supposed to be kind of a promo thing, a studio, pre thing...

Constellation? That was just like a demo you guys did, right?
Hellhammer: Yeah, it was actually never to be released commercially. But Samoth thought, "This is very good, please could I have it on my label..." And we thought well, yeah it's quite good souding, it's very old so it still has some of these dark feelings over it.

Oh, it's fantastic. I've taped it a lot of people...
Hellhammer: Hmm?

I've taped it for quite a few people...
Hellhammer: Hmmm. And so we agreed then to let him release it, but only in like limited quantity. Because, at that time we felt it wasn't good enough to be available as a mini-cd or something limitless.

It makes sense to me, then. I was curious. If you're not 100% satisfied, you shouldn't push it then.
Hellhammer: But now I'm very love for releasing it because it shows Arcturus at a different stage, at a different time, and that's how we felt it at that time. I'm glad we actually released it, because if we didn't, the feeling of that particular time would be lost.

When I first heard it, it was kind of a rough copy my friend got from somebody else, so it was still kind of like "underground" sounding. I was totally blown away. Sverd's the one behind it?
Hellhammer: Yeah. He wrote absolutely everything.

That guy's a fucking genius.
Hellhammer: Except for...I wrote some stuff on Rødt og Svart.

Do you fool with any other instruments, too?
Hellhammer: I've played guitar for as long as I've played drums, actually. I'm not any good at all playing guitar, solos and stuff, but, rhythm guitar and I can create music and stuff. I can, but I'm not any good, I'm not any technical good.

I started guitar a year before I started drums, and I just kinda got sick of it so I picked up drums. Not sick of it, I used to play both, but I liked to drum so much more, so I played drums primarily. So I would just practice guitar a little bit here & there, just to maybe write some stuff or fool with it, but I liked drums...it's so much nicer, because that way you can integrate both into one. When you're writing drums, you hear something behind it, or you're playing guitar and you hear something behind it. It's much more of an asset to do that.
Hellhammer: Absolutely. For creating songs...if I couldn't play the guitar...I wrote quite much of the material on De Misteriis. Lately I haven't touched the guitar...in one year now, actually. Blasphemer is borrowing my guitar amplifier. He has it at home to create music on. His stack is at the rehearsal space, so this is just a small combo which I have, a Carlsboro amplifier. I haven't had the chance to play. Besides, he is writing the music now so I don't have to [laughs].

Do you ever take anything he writes and just kinda work it out on your own on guitar too?
Hellhammer: Not guitar lines. Just drums, but I can re-arrange parts and say that...well, we just shift the beat a little bit here and...just some other things here and see how it works out. But he is the master in writing the music now.

[He mentioned the METH tape Bill Sannwald had sent him & said he enjoyed it & would write back. I told him how we both enjoyed Arcturus La Masquerade Infernale a lot, but we both liked the drums on the new Mayhem more...]

Hellhammer: Well Mayhem stuff is way harder to play than say Arcturus.

I'm really glad I got the opportunity to do this. I think this is what's great. You've been playing drums for so long, same with a few people I know. I go, "how long have you been playing drums?" "15 years" "17 years" "12 years". I go, "Well that's so nice that they're playing metal, when they could be playing anything else, making money off of it, but they're still playing underground metal because they love it so much." That's what keeps the stuff going...
Hellhammer: I've been playing for 17 years now. I would love to play anything. For me, if I could [make money??], I would think I would play a pop song. Extreme metal is what I like playing, and as long as that I feel that way, I will always play fast, technical stuff.

It's in your blood.
Hellhammer: Yeah, it is, yeah. And I guess it will be there for eternity [laughs].